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Molly
Member since Apr-26-08
365 posts		 Sep-28-08, 12:37 PM (PST)
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"My 2nd attempt with pinning"
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 12:38 PM (PST)
 
Well, I wanted to share my 2nd attempt with pinning. Thanks to ALL for your help and advice and a special thanks to bgarthe and beetlehorn! I hope it is a little improvement from my 1st attempt. It sure is harder than it looks!! (pics are from my cell phone)

Molly Moth

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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Lord Pandarus Sep-28-08 1
  RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning daveuk Sep-28-08 2
  RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning bgarthe Sep-28-08 3
  RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning RJW1 Sep-28-08 4
     RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Molly Sep-28-08 5
         RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Lord Pandarus Sep-28-08 6
             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning dunc01226 Sep-29-08 7
                 RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Molly Sep-30-08 8
                     RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning beetlehorn Sep-30-08 9
                         RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Dave Moore Oct-25-08 10
                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Chris_2005 Oct-27-08 11
                                 RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-09-08 12
                                     RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-09-08 13
                                         RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning dunc01226 Nov-09-08 14
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-09-08 15
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning T_18 Nov-10-08 16
                                     RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning africaone Nov-10-08 17
                                         RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-10-08 18
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning T_18 Nov-10-08 19
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-10-08 20
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning T_18 Nov-11-08 21
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Saturniidave Nov-11-08 22
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning BobW Nov-11-08 23
                                             RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning Lord Pandarus Nov-12-08 24

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Lord Pandarus
Member since Mar-24-07
274 posts		 Sep-28-08, 01:28 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #0
 
   the Agraulis vanillae is quite good

On the moth the forewings are too low.


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daveuk
Member since May-5-08
145 posts		 Sep-28-08, 01:31 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #0
 
   Hi Molly
Sorry you have not been well.
Glad you are better & have re-joined us.
Have to tell you for a second attempt at spreading I think you have done a REALLY good job.!!!
With just a bit more practice you'll be as good as any of us!!!
Good luck!
Dave


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bgarthe
Member since May-8-03
930 posts		 Sep-28-08, 01:34 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 01:35 PM (PST)
 
Molly,

That butterfly looks absolutely AWESOME----great mounting job

While both mountings are better than before, the moth's front wings might best be brought upward until the bottom of the FW forms a 90 degreee angle (like the front wings on the butterfly you did)to the thorax. These things do take time and I am quite sure (with practice) all your mountings will be as good as the A. vanillae butterfly you did.

Also, it is hard to tell by the picture, but the body of the moth may still be a bit big for for the groove in the spreading board. If the body is sticking above the top edges of the groove, try taking a knife to the edges of the spreading board groove and shaving off some making the groove wider or make a board with even a wider groove. If the body is 'bottoming out' in the groove, you'll have to deepen the depth of the groove some. Having the body up higher than the top of the groove will make the moth's wings be 'droopy' when you take off the bug later on.

Good job and thanks for sharing.

btw----some of us older goons who have been doing this for years have to re-mount material for various reasons. I recently was not satisfied with several Euphaedras I had mounted in the past in their drawer and re-hydrated them to re-mount them.

Again, I gotta say that that butterfly is terrific!!!! The moth could use an adjustment...I know they are harder to do than the butterfly

Oh-----I almost forgot to say that I wish my second attempt at mounting looked as good.

Bill Garthe


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RJW1
Member since Apr-4-08
52 posts		 Sep-28-08, 03:26 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #0
 
   Very nice, Molly, especially that butterfly. Leps are so difficult that I gravitated towards beetles! I'm truly amazed by all you lep people and what you can do with them!

Robyn


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Molly
Member since Apr-26-08
365 posts		 Sep-28-08, 03:40 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #4
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 03:42 PM (PST)
 
Wow, thanks for all the quick feedback and for the "free online tutoring"! I appreciate all of your help and love learning about my new hobby. I moved the moths wings a little up, better?? It is scary to move the wings as they feel like they will rip but Im trying to be brave and careful.

Molly Moth

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Lord Pandarus
Member since Mar-24-07
274 posts		 Sep-28-08, 04:33 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #5
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-08 AT 04:42 PM (PST)
 
that's very good!Perfect I might add

I'd put more pins on top of the forewings to make sure the wings don't slip.

I also like the way you placed the hindwings .Sometimes they can be raised to high or not enough but his is perfect ,about midway towards the bottom edge of the forewing

Using feedback like this will prevent you from perpetuating a mistake


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dunc01226
Member since Jan-12-08
369 posts		 Sep-29-08, 00:04 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #6
 
   Molly, For a second attempt that is an INCREDIBLE job, you should see some of my earlier efforts that I'm having to redo now. With time you will find your own methods which suit you best but your not doing too bad now anyway.
regards Dunc


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Molly
Member since Apr-26-08
365 posts		 Sep-30-08, 02:53 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #7
 
Thanks for the updated feedback on the re-pinning and helpful comments! Hooray...I am making progress

Molly Moth


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beetlehorn
Member since May-19-07
263 posts		 Sep-30-08, 06:35 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #8
 
   First of all let me say Im' pleased to see you are having fun with this activity. You will find that as you progress, you will learn a lot more in a shorter period of time if the fun part of it comes along for the ride. One helpful tip I can share with you when mounting Lepidoptera is having a picture of the species you are mounting. There are many books out there with already mounted specimens. One little book that really helped me when I got started was the Golden Guide of North American Butterflies and Moths (approx. $6.00 at most book stores). The illustrations in this book show perfectly spread butterflies and moths. I would suggest studying the specimen you have mounted, and then look at the picture side by side. If all my leps came out as good as this book shows, I would have avoided a great deal of frustration. By the way, I still have the original copy I got when I was 10 years old. Tom


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Dave Moore
Member since Sep-8-05
140 posts		 Oct-25-08, 05:38 PM (PST)
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10. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #9
 
   If that is your second attempt at setting the leps, then congratulations are definately in order. Lovely job.
the first few tries I made - many years ago - were absolutely awful. the holes in the wings and skewed appearance of all of them make me ashamed to say that i did them.
I had no reference at all, and did not know anybody else that shared by new found interest. If only the internet and this site were available then! such is life.
WELL DONE
Dave


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Chris_2005
Member since Jan-23-05
1008 posts		 Oct-27-08, 00:05 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #10
 
You're off to a great start. You'll be doing perfect mounts before you know it.

____________________________
Chris Garcia
Cool, California 95614
Norcal-butterflies on eBay


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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-09-08, 10:35 AM (PST)
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12. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #11
 
   For all you guys 'over there', this is how we do it in the U.K. Please excuse the grease-stained setting (spreading) boards but I set some Saturniids that were very greasy and I have not got round to re-papering them yet.I use a single strip of a glasseen type paper or very thin tracing paper the length of the board, two strips for wide ones. This lets you see what is going on and doesn't fall off when you move the boards around. I stand my boards up on a radiator so glass slides would be a no no, they are usually dried in 4 days.
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse

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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-09-08, 10:37 AM (PST)
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13. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #12
 
   Oops, sorry, the first picture got duplicated.
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse


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dunc01226
Member since Jan-12-08
369 posts		 Nov-09-08, 12:32 PM (PST)
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14. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #13
 
   Those setting boards look well used Dave, just like mine.
Dunc


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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-09-08, 04:00 PM (PST)
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15. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #14
 
   They sure are Dunc, I have boards over 50 years old and still going strong, in fact I have a couple of saddle boards around 100 years old! I usually buy my setting boards second-hand at the insect fairs and re-paper them, it saves a lot of money and they look good as new. These ones are greased up form some oily old Saturniids I set, I have not had time to re-paper them yet as a lot have been in constant use. This is usually my Winter job but I have been too busy with other things.
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse


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T_18
Member since May-12-08
152 posts		 Nov-10-08, 08:46 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #15
 
Hi Dave,

I never put paper on my setting board? Why do you do it?

THanks,

THijmen


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africaone
Member since Aug-18-05
404 posts		 Nov-10-08, 09:05 AM (PST)
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17. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #12
 
Dave
did you got the trimeni recently ?

Thierry


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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-10-08, 11:24 AM (PST)
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18. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #17
 
   Yes Thierry, I bought them a couple of weeks ago in a job lot of Saturniids. They needed re-setting and the female had a badly repaired split in the forewing which I had to redo to make it look better. They were caught a while ago by Rolf Oberprieler, if you want the data I can get it to you.
Thijmen, most of the people I know here paper their setting boards. It makes it easier to see the position of the wings so I can get them equally aligned on both sides, especially with the smaller insects. Some collectors even rule lines across the boards at 5mm apart so they can get their wings perfectly in line. Actually this is quite a good idea for beginners as you can see exactly where the wings are in relation to the lines and get a better result.
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse


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T_18
Member since May-12-08
152 posts		 Nov-10-08, 12:19 PM (PST)
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19. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #18
 
Hi Dave,

THanks I will try that, so if I understood you correctly some collectors drew lines on this paper so the wings will dry perfectly?

Another question, I have some specimens I mounted years ago as a beginner. But they are very badly mounted. You spoke about re-setting, I want to do it also but how do I relax them again?

Kind regards,

Thijmen


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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-10-08, 04:49 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #19
 
   Hi Thijmen, they draw horizontal lines at right angles to the axis of the boards across the whole width so that, for example, both forewing apices reach the same line so they are perfectly symmetrical. As to re-setting, there are several threads here regarding relaxing. Try a search for 'relaxing'.
Cheers,
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse


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T_18
Member since May-12-08
152 posts		 Nov-11-08, 08:57 AM (PST)
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21. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #20
 
Hi dave,

I use the relaxing method from Bill, he made an "how to" movie on this site.
But how do I relax already pinned specimens? Should I leave the pin in the specimens?

Thanks for now,

THijmen


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Saturniidave
Member since Apr-26-07
1524 posts		 Nov-11-08, 01:16 PM (PST)
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22. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #21
 
   Hi Thijmen, yes, leave the pin in. You can always remove it after the inect has relaxed if necessary. What I do is put a thin strip of plastazote in the relaxing box and pin the specimens on to that. You will usually find the wings 'spring' up when they are relaxed, specimens are a lot easier to set when they have been set once before as the wings do not need much moving.
Dave

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional" Bob Monkhouse


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BobW
Member since Jan-7-04
527 posts		 Nov-11-08, 01:38 PM (PST)
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23. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #22
 
   I find that injecting a bit of boiling water into the thorax makes the wings of already set specimens lift immediately, they can then be repositioned and set as normal.

Bob


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Lord Pandarus
Member since Mar-24-07
274 posts		 Nov-12-08, 09:11 AM (PST)
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24. "RE: My 2nd attempt with pinning"
In response to message #23
 
   The problem I find if one just relaxes the body by injection or dipping in hot water to spread is that the wings remain hard and brittle

My favourite new combo is humidor +dipping body in boiling water to fully relax.


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